Cirdan comments that
this post is simply an
ad hominem tu quoque. Whilst I am fully aware that I am no match whatsoever for him as regards analytical philosophy, I suspect that this is not the
whole truth. I offer the following post to allow my thinking to be tested (most likely to destruction...).
The original post quoted
Mr Eugenides as follows:
Being told by China and Algeria that your human rights record is poor is rather like Charlie Kennedy admonishing you for ordering another beer.
I assume that Cirdan highlights the
tu quoque fallacy because, well, one can easily see the circumstances in which it would indeed be
tu quoque : if a nation is up in front of the UNHRC for breaches of Human Rights, it would indeed be "tu quoque" for that nation to ignore the charge by making such a statement.
However, I don't think that that is enough. I offer two defences.
Defence 1: What about Hypocrisy? The question that immediately springs to mind is this:
Where does a legitimate accusation of hypocrisy stop and a tu quoque fallacy start?
Good old
Wikipedia:
Hypocrisy also refers to the act of criticizing others for behavior which one engages in as well, or in other words, not practicing what you preach.
If Cirdan is right, one could not level the charge of hypocrisy, without one's target making the corresponding accusation of
tu quoque. That doesn't seem right to me.
I suspect that the line between the two has much to do with the way that the accusation is made.
Thus:
Charlie Kennedy [looking meek and proffering an AA leaflet]: "P-G, I know from experience from alcohol is a dreadful thing and I can see that you drink too much"
P-G [who has just emerged from a friend's stag party and knows that he will pay for it in the morning]: "You are a right one to talk."
would be a
tu quoque fallacy on my part. But:
Charlie Kennedy [tottering uncertainly, looking aggressive and taking a swig from a bottle of buckfast wrapped in a brown paper bag]: "P-G, you drink too much"
P-G [who has just emerged from a friend's stag party and knows that he will pay for it in the morning]: "You are a right one to talk."
would be a legitimate accusation of hypocrisy on my part.
In both cases, the same proposition is made, that P-G drinks too much, but the outcome is clearly different. I offer therefore the general case:
"A" and "B" both display failing "F".
There are (broadly) four cases:
A displays F more/less than B
x
A, in making the accusation of B, admits/does not admit to F
- If A admits to F, any retort from B drawing attention to A's failings is almost definitely tu quoque, as A has already done so.
- This is true pretty much regardless of their relative degrees of failing.
- But if A does not admit his own failing when accusing B, then things are less clear. If A's failing is substantially worse than B's, B would almost certainly be correct to call A a hypocrite. A's rebuttal that that is tu quoque would be very very lame.
- However, if B's failing is substantially worse than A's, then B is on distinctly sticky ground to draw attention to A's failing in order to distract attention from his own. A could accuse B of tu quoque with some justification.
So to go back to the substantive example, substitute Saudi Arabia and Azerbaijan for "A", the US for "B" and "flagrant abuses of Human Rights" for failing "F". I think we can be clear that we are in case 3 here. A's failing is considerably worse than B's and there is very unlikely to be any substantive admission of this when trying to haul "B" over the coals. "B" would be correct to call A a hypocrite and A's rebuttal that that represents a
tu quoque would be very very very very weak.
Defence 2: Limited Resources It would be nice if we could right all the wrongs in the world but we can't. We have limited resources. This means that our aim should be to achieve the greatest good for the greatest number. In this context, it would be a better use of limited resources to tackle the most flagrant and persistent abuses of Human Rights where there is clearly not going to be any internal pressure - indeed because of the suppression of Human Rights - to do so.
For "B" to argue that the resources of the UN are not best used in dealing with its problems has some merit. By contrast,
tu quoque looks lame against this. It might be true, but it is substantially less than the whole truth.
To return to the very top, I think that Cirdan's original suggestion that my original post is simply
tu quoque focusses on the smallest and least important part of it and could be dismissed with a
suitably gallic shrug. I am reluctant to do so as much of the reason for my starting this blog was to test out my own thinking.
And if anyone is going to explain why I am completely misguided, I'm pretty sure Cirdan is the man to do it.
Whilst we are on the topic of hypocrisy, and given the definition quoted above, I ought just to mention our
favourite moron. He has
a simply fabulous post here. Whatever the merits of the arguments listed (or lack thereof) I can see nothing in the post that even begins to explain how or why they are
hypocritical. He may not like them and he may not agree with them, but that is not the same thing. I hesitate to say that this smacks of woolly thinking on his part as I strongly suspect that that charge will shortly be laid at my door for the majority of the post above...